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some recording help? [Apr. 11th, 2006|12:39 am]
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Hey, everyone -

I'm working on some tracks with the Dotcom setup right now, but I've run into a problem. I previously only really used VSTi's, which render directly to disc instead of recording in realtime, so it hasn't been an issue. But now that I'm triggering the Dotcom system over MIDI and recording the audio, it's reared its ugly head.

I know that some of you use Cubase SX, so I hope that this is one of those easy fixes that I'm just not thinking about. I've been recording a lot, and I've found that all of my recorded audio is a little bit "ahead" of the MIDI clock/MIDI notes - no real problem since all audio tracks are "ahead" by the same amount (in sync with each other), but it's become a problem when I want to excise a certain measure and copy and paste it - I'm losing the attack of the first note, which is really noticeable with kick drums.

Here's a picture of the situation -



What's going on? I figure this is a latency issue, but it seems like if anything, the audio should be late or behind, not ahead. Is Cubase trying to automatically compensate for latency or something, thus moving the audio "ahead" of the beat?

What can I do to fix this?
linkReply

Comments:
[User Picture]From: loscha
2006-04-11 06:23 am (UTC)

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Yes Cubase is trying to auto-compensate.
I dunno if you can turn it off or not.
In an older version of cubase (or was it cubasis, can't remember!), I turned that off, and I used to run my stuff a bar slow, minus however many ticks it was being latent by, and that worked ok.
From: (Anonymous)
2007-06-20 05:21 am (UTC)

Do it by hand

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The trick is to bypass the external instrument function in cubase then

1) Record a fast attack sound ( A HH ) From each midi module and then measure how far it is late, and it will be late. Measure it in milliseconds by selecting the distance between the start of the bar and the sound, write this down in relation to each module and enter it into the millisecond delay in the midi track itself not the audio track. You must first figure out the record offset of your system otherwise you will overcompensate your midi. To do this, record a sample accurate HH playing from an internal sampler back into an audio track in cubase, measure the distance that it is late into the reocrd offset box under device set-up VST. Once you have that right you can be sure that any record offset latency is compensated for probably to within 8-10 samples all the way arpund including mics and sound modules. Then you measure in milliseconds all the module offsets and enter the amount into the midi tracks, this will correct the audio midi timing as well as record offset for everything. Another Idea would be to contact cubase tech support and set your system up with them.

Later
[User Picture]From: robocowboy
2006-04-11 07:18 am (UTC)

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That was going to be my guess: auto-compensation for latency. Sometimes you can adjust this in your sound card's drivers, but most good audio programs like to talk to the sound card directly and not mess around with any control panel settings. Try finding a latency adjustment in Cubase and adjusting it by the latency you are seeing. Since it is the same ammount every time, there is probably a fixed setting for this auto-compensation. Hopefully it doesn't try to get "smart" and adjust that for you from time to time depending on how much you have going on in the program. As long as it doesn't change stuff around on you, you should be able to get things to sync up perfectly with a little experimentation and adjustment.
From: forrestmors
2008-10-09 04:29 pm (UTC)

(Link)

Experiment and Adjust With a little experimentation and adjustment to both husbandry and maintenance practices, the aquarist with a hair algae problem will determine the root cause of the outbreak and prevent future outbreaks.
From: necrosensual
2006-04-11 02:21 pm (UTC)

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indeed that is strange, I would expect the audio to be behind the midi.
it looks like the midi note is snapping to the grid, I don't use cubase (PT user) but maybe there is an auto-quantize option.
what is that ">|<" for?
[User Picture]From: cleversticks
2006-04-11 03:36 pm (UTC)

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i dunno dude, play with the settings or something

lol
[User Picture]From: bleepsandbloops
2006-04-11 08:00 pm (UTC)

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Kill! You!
[User Picture]From: syruss
2006-04-11 05:14 pm (UTC)

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Wow, that’s truly bizarre. I don’t use Cubase, so I can’t offer any opinion as to what might be happening. Best of luck getting it sorted out!
From: (Anonymous)
2006-04-11 07:29 pm (UTC)

emulated driver?

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It might be an emulated driver problem. Check this SOS article out: http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/sep03/articles/pcnotes.htm
[User Picture]From: bleepsandbloops
2006-04-11 08:02 pm (UTC)

Re: emulated driver?

(Link)

I actually already dealt with that; my MIDI timing was so unstable that I couldn't even record basic one-measure patterns, and I found that info and made sure I was using non-emulated drivers. The MIDI timing is incredibly tight now, but the audio is somehow "ahead" of the MIDI data when I record it. Weird!
From: (Anonymous)
2006-04-20 03:04 pm (UTC)

latency

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You might get your audio to snap to the bar, then you'll have to trim the thing early, or slide the whole thing down...been struggling with this for a year, ever since I tried to upgrade. Tried Cubase and Tracktion. Tried Mackie and M-audio interfaces. You will end up changing your latency every time your computer chokes. I ended up setting up my old computer with crappy 16 bit audio card, because ProTools uses a set latency on the AudioMediaIII of about 6.11 miliseconds. MIDI has a latency of about 5 ms. To make matters worse, a polysynth has a keyboard scanner that sweeps the keyboard every 6 ms, so you don't ever know when your Juno-106 is going to play a note. This is why Vince Clarke hates MIDI and digital. Either spend 9 grand on a G5 mac with logic and an RME interface, get an analog multitrack, where your only latency will be between the sync and playback heads, or play everything live into your vcr. Or listen to records and be a happy guy.

Don't give up, and don't get stressed. The music will be made, and no one will know...
Brent R
From: (Anonymous)
2006-07-03 06:41 pm (UTC)

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This is Cubase's automatic latency compensation, but all is not lost. They built in a little feature that lets you compensate for their compensation!

See the three little sliders in your left hand panel? They're volume (100), pan (0), and time offset (0.00). You can nudge the time offset slider forward ever so slightly on your audio track, and then watch carefully what happens to your kick drum track. It should slide by a small margin to the right. Be careful to set this back to 0.00 before you do any additional recording on that track, though. Once you're 100% happy with the track, you can offet it forward, and you'll have the sample-perfect matching you want.

Life with latency sucks, and even though they try to get it right in software, it still doesn't always come out perfect. Unless you switch to tape, or Protools TDM, you're always going to have to be clever about latency and delay compensation.
From: zdenadykor
2008-07-17 05:15 am (UTC)

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You can fiddle with an Adjust panel slider in any of three ways, as illustrated in Figure . Additional content appearing in this section has been removed.
From: erinsilverthor
2008-10-09 04:14 pm (UTC)

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You can fiddle with an Adjust panel slider in any of three ways, as illustrated in Figure . Additional content appearing in this section has been removed.